It needs to happen because there is a non-binary writer whos been brought in, a consultant, a producer. And I feel like Hollywood treats babies like props anyway. I mean, there are always meals on set. Before we get to our final two questions, I definitely wanted to make sure that we get to talking a little bit about your advocacy in the campaign to eliminate gendered award categories. Theres another genre in which this sort of gender play is more frequently seen than other genres, and thats science fiction/fantasy. (Laughs.). Thank you again. Taylors notI mean, I dont want to generalize about people who drink Red Bull. I've been very transparent about my struggles with my body, and with a society that is constantly trying to contain me and label me and define me. I think Taylor knows who they are and knows what their talents are. the government, the planet, the race forces her to undergo a conversion therapy of sorts to go back to a they, which is really interesting. That doesnt make them a woman. The Hollywood Reporter is a part of Penske Media Corporation. And you see Mafee defending Taylor, which is important for people to watch. He is able to also hold respect for this person who presumably is the first non-binary person hes ever met, because he actually just sees Taylor as a tool that he can use to achieve his ultimate goal. Im starting to see a few high-profile celebrities come out as non-binary. I dont necessarily like when the attempt is offensive, but to get something right, you also need to know what you got wrong. Sun: Im glad you mentioned that. Asia has mentioned that they are attracted to both males and females. But I noticed when I was watching your various past interviews, that youve been very gracious and very patient in answering questions about what it means to be non-binary, even when I imagine sometimes the questions might grow repetitive or kind of basic. Do they get to have a voice? Dillon is non-binary and uses singular they pronouns. And I think these are rooms with people who are somewhat familiar with gender identity or the concept of pronouns, or certainly when I use mine could be like, What did that mean? So yes, Im just relating to the fact that, as you said, the burden is always on or predominantly on non-binary or trans people, gender nonconforming people, to say, like, Heres how Im different instead of the burden or the joy actually on all of us getting to self-determine, be autonomous and have that respected. Dont hate the player, hate the game, you know what I mean? Oh, gosh, fun. I would say that elements of Bugs Bunnys representation have gender nonconformity, and that can apply to anybody, not just non-binary people. And so it makes a lot of logical sense to me that that would be a genre that people leaned into. Asia always wanted to play the role of a boy, which came true when they were cast as a boy at the age of 11 in their school play. If you are a white mother and you have a Black daughter, how do you talk to that child about who they are as a Black person in America? They are not trying to incorporate a character who still ascribes to a gender that people want to force on them. So its realistic to think that we might see this someday. Thats really all that they have. In 2017, when Showtime asked me how I want to be submitted for an Emmy, actor or actress, I thought, Well, I know that I use the word actor and always have, because actor is a gender-neutral word that has existed for at least a century before the word actress came into being. The Ellen DeGeneres Show (2003-2023) Jane Fonda ( Grace and Frankie (2015)); Asia Kate Dillon ( Billions (2016)); guest DJ Stephen Boss. You dont have to ascribe to this or that. Asia Kate Dillon, an actor with non-binary gender identity, was approached for the role of The Adjudicator, who exercised admirable agency in their request to have their character also be non-binary. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. This is reality for us, and all we ask for is acceptance and validation for what we say that we are. But I watched SNL religiously. And then after you get a few more representations, you start to see depictions of people of color and other intersectional portrayals. Asia Kate Dillon: When I looked up the word non-binary, it said, "An umbrella term for any number of gender identities falling outside the boxes of man and woman.". And so that is very special, but yeah, we talk about mostly where Taylor is coming from emotionally and why they are the way they are and why they are behaving the way theyre behaving and doing what theyre doing. Asia, thank you for letting me indulge my inner fan for so long. And to have people listen and be sensitive to them. Which is why they were the perfect muse for a mix of non-binary summer fashion. Asia revealed on their Twitter that they are pansexual and prefers to be considered as non-binary. "I don't think it will be too many more years," they say, "before. Shes fluffy and puffy, but shes sturdy. Our Place's Beloved Always Pan Is Officially Ready to Get Baked, The Best Chef's Knives Are a Cut Above the Rest. Sun: Im glad you mentioned Rutherford Falls, because that brings in something you talked about earlier about genre. Sun: I want to start by acknowledging that when it comes to belonging to a marginalized or underrepresented identity, theres never an obligation to teach others. And I remember taking the clippers that my roommate had at the time and just going for it. It makes me feel freer than ever. I mean, because the trick of Pat was Pat just was clueless. Sun: Im glad you brought that up. What do you think about satire? Demi Lovato I think was the most recent really big announcement. And it was incredibly freeing and ultimately, I felt like there was nothing to hide behind. Do you ever have days where you dont feel like having the conversation? I can't believe I just said that out loud. Two things Ill bring up. I am obsessed with Billions. Were all ignorant of what were ignorant of until were not. And after having gone on this whole journey with his sister, he makes the conscious choice with his partner to not gender their baby. The short answer is yes. I was having a conversation with a friend recently, and were both cis-gender but realizing a lot of how helpful it is to decouple these gendered characteristics. I think were at a place in the general understanding in Hollywood where your actors should come from a background that matches the character, especially when youre talking about portraying a character that comes from a marginalized background, but what is the line of appropriateness when it comes to gender nonconforming performers? I think, Actually, I do need to take this opportunity to engage in this conversation, because there is perhaps a bridge to understanding here that will benefit people who dont have a voice, who cant walk down the street without being told to kill themselves.. Thats a tricky thing. For playing the character Brandy Epps in the Netflix series. I like sphere Ive been using the word spectrum, but I think sphere is even more encompassing of all the different identities that can fall within it. White: This is really difficult because to have a line of appropriateness, you have to have roles. They use multiple pronouns, they are referred to as boy and girl and all kinds of things. Anyone can enter either category for any reason. Asia Kate Dillon was born on November 15, 1984 in Ithaca, New York, USA. This is generally a setup to be like, is there something problematic you want to call out, but we dont have to put it that way. The pioneering actor tells Aaron Hicklin how they are harnessing empathy as a tool for change Sun 25 Mar 2018 04.00 . Are you zero waste?Asia Kate Dillon: No! And so it is important to have those stories, but growing up, and up until honestly a few years ago, those were the only stories that existed. Like you just said, the Gotham Awards just announced that theyre abolishing it, the MTV Movie and TV Awards, you were the very first person in 2017 to present a gender-neutral acting category, and I believe that both the Berlin and San Sebastian film festivals have gender-neutral categories. Your kids are nervous about school shootings heres what to say, Teen banned from prom at Christian school for wearing a dress with mesh cut-outs, People are freaking out about Britney Spears face: Such a shame. I've spent my entire youth and life fighting against that. Asia Kate Dillon is an American actress, producer, and director known for portraying various important roles in popular TV shows like Taylor Mason in Billions and Brandy Epps in Orange Is the New Black. And of course you have Mafee there sort of defending Taylor to their dad, which I thought was beautiful. ", "I'm not [transitioning] to be interesting. White: Okay. And shes kind of sturdy. Your characters get to do different things and they get to be different people, and thats because theyre not conforming to that binary. And so Im wondering if you wouldnt mind I know youve told this story before talking a little bit about what was your framework for understanding yourself prior, and then also, how do you currently identify? You're not beautiful despite those things, you're beautiful because of those things, and [believing] that has to be an active conscious process. Thank you very much. And when it comes to non-binary identities, I think that also just holds true: White non-binary actors white characters, really, and thats really what this is. The actor who plays Taylor from Billions wears a seamless mix of clothes (labels like menswear and womenswear need not apply) and talks Axe Capital, Trump, and playing a white supremacist. No. But then I went to an alternative high school where you played whatever part they thought you were the best for. And it doesnt dictate what my gender identity is. Asia Kate Dillon is a fierce actor with arresting eyes and a buzzcut, known for breakout roles including a Nazi skinhead inmate in Orange Is the New Black and, currently, a calculating hedge-fund intern on Showtimes Billions. Their role on Billions is the first gender non-binary character shown on American television. I could use a little help and understanding: Is that the same as or different from or similar to gender nonconforming or genderqueer or gender fluid? I have always felt non-binary, before I had the language to conceive or communicate what that was to other people. 107. It's a good start. It sounds so parochial, the Masons.. Anyway, I have this because you never know if theres going to be food somewhere. The first question is the Hollywood Remixed, which is: Is there a depiction of a non-binary character in pop culture that you would order a do-over for, and how? Whatever hope Taylor gave to other people once Taylor appeared onscreen, Taylor gave me that hope and sense of self first., Dillon also discusses with host Rebecca Sun (THR senior editor of diversity and inclusion) their campaign to remove gendered acting categories from awards shows, a move that the Grammys, Gotham Awards, MTV Movie and TV Awards and Berlin and San Sebastian film festivals have already done. And so for that not to be part of Taylors story on the show, to not have that special trope episode, its like, Thank goodness. So I wanted to start by asking you, where are you currently at in terms of how you decide to spend your time or energy educating people? But now I'm here, and I'm transgender. It's just a feeling. It's something everyone wants, to feel understood. And that applies to representation on television and film. Sun: It unfortunately is. When did you start to get recognized as an actor?I started to get recognized when my season of Orange came out. What does gender identity and/or assigned sex at birth have to do with the way in which we are awarding art? Dillon: Thank you again for asking about it and letting me talk about it. Last season, we got to learn a little bit more about Taylors past when Kevin Pollak recurred as your father. It's a basic human right.". Dillon is also the founder and the producing director of MIRROR/FIRE Productions. They changed it, because why not? I've dealt with this feeling my entire life, and I know that I'm a woman deep down. White: Oh, absolutely. In 2017, "Billions" star Asia Kate Dillon, the. Asia has EINFHLUNG tattooed on their neck which means empathy in German. The mission is to produce work that supports and uplifts historically marginalized and disenfranchised people. Comedy is also a space where gender and this doesnt just apply to non-binary people, this applies to women, even men, honestly, in the sense of the tropes that cisgender men are allowed to occupy. ", "Coming out is HARD (and kinda bs). Dillon: I have to be honest about the fact that Im not a casting director and Im not an agent and Im not a manager, so Im not seeing scripts come across my desk, quote-unquote, every day. The clothes are almost all vintage Thierry Mugler. (Laughs.) I know for me it's something I'll be doing over again for the rest of my life. And I think this applies to lots of marginalized groups, like doing blackface was a big no-no a lot longer than doing cripface. To be clear, I am not trying to dampen a moment that is joyous and one that I celebrate, but I want to address the full picture. Do you think its useful in times like this, or does it just serve to make bad people more palatable?Youve kind of hit on what the issue can be. And it makes a lot of sense that Star Trek, based off of its founding principles that it has carried through its entire franchise over decades, would be progressive in conversations about gender. Knowledge has changed over time. Theres people made out of candy and lemons. Ive had people straight up admit to me, I was homophobic and transphobic, and I love Billions, and I love your character, and now I just wish the best for you and I love you. Its so fun to play a character that doesnt use any machismo or bravado. I really like a structure. I love how much you love the show. And the problem up until now has been that there has been the majority of one kind of representation. Watching a lot of kids cartoons, where theres increasing conversation about the impact of gender stereotypes and what that reinforces in cisgender and non-binary and trans kids and maybe how damaging that can be when you watch some of these cartoons, its not even just blue is for boy and pink is for girl. Its like, a car has to have eyelashes, which is a weird thing because its assuming, one, that men and boys dont have eyelashes. Not that Im taking that whole responsibility on myself, but that is work Im specifically engaging in. Angels and demons are not humans; theyre celestial beings, and so why would they conform to that? Actors need to act, actors need money. And the pussy hats not all pussies are pink, but that association is totally exclusive, and not just of nonbinary people, but of trans women and people of color. Our costume designer, Luca Mosca, had a vision: Lets go high-femme, lets go European, lets go structured. The truth is, despite feeling profoundly happy right now and knowing how much privilege I carry, I am also scared. And if Taylor, if this fictional character can exist in this fictional world and has been brave enough to get up and get dressed and go out there into the world and be who they really are, then I can too. I dont want to give an excuse and say trial and error, but you do see a lot of errors on the interminable road of progress. Getting to wear drag is super fun. Another one that I think about a lot and Ive been thinking about increasingly in the past couple of years is Adventure Time. We dont have to confine you in the same way that we always have. Post Malone, Riz Ahmed, Josephine Skriver, and More on the Fly Way to Dress Down This Summer. That was a real pleasure. Dillon is non-binary and uses singular they pronouns. We need to see roles written for them that are Emmy-, Tony- and Oscar-worthy. If Im misgendered by someone who has just learned my pronouns and theyre obviously not doing it out of malice or to bully me, there is room for growth and learning, of course. It wasn't the time for me to come out back then. Not to hark on animation, but you mentioned adult animation. Updated: November 29, 2021 In 2017 and again, if you Google this, Im basically quoting but thats okay. Its imperfect, but I think some of those flaws are intentional because its not just about the non-binary character. So Ive learned to bring food, especially when I know its going to be a long day. I describe my gender identity as always sort of being this way. A voice faintly hollers in the background: Hollywood Remixed!. Im definitely still learning. ", "There was a physical identity of what people perceived as 'boy,' but that's not how I was feeling inside. My mom was a pop culture hound; all of my pop culture interests really derived from her and my relationship with her. What is that line? They providevery different things. Its a challenge and I love a challenge. Dillon: Unless Im misremembering, I had nothing to do with the writing of that scene. And so its really interesting to see some cool stuff thats happening in animation, very specifically in childrens animation, thats breaking that down and arguably at the forefront of our conversations about non-binary identity and gender non-conforming identities. Lets talk a little bit about definitions so that all of us can understand the parameters of what well be talking about today. ", "I think from my teenage years, when I decided I needed to express my femininity, I was happy with the way I looked. And I would argue that live-action non-binary and trans characters have also done this. To be here. What does it mean for you to fall in love with someone, and they fall in love with you, under the assumption that you are one thing and youre actually the other? Sun: Precisely. Im so grateful that neither Brandy nor Taylor wear any makeup although they do cover my neck tattoo for Taylor but its a real easy time in the [hair and makeup] chair for me. "Billions" and "Orange Is the New Black" star Asia Kate Dillon sat down with Ellen to discuss paving the way as one of TV's first non-binary gender identifyi. Thousands of new, high-quality pictures added every day. Im curious, though, whether or not we will see a trickle-down effect to non-binary performers getting to play non-binary characters or whether their roles will be along binary lines. You have to go to sources who are familiar with the way that your child is going to navigate the world. The John Wick movies have always been very representative of all different kinds of people, whether its ethnicity or sexual orientation, and so it just felt really right for the world to have gender diversity as well. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter for nonstop inspiration delivered fresh to your feed, every day. They have a mild social media following with more than 150k followers on Instagram and more than 50k followers on Twitter. To your knowledge, have people told you whether or not thats actually true to life of the real-life hedge fund world? And theres all these different sorts of weird characters. And so theyre actually forced to reckon with their own masculinity simply because Taylor is there. And its pretty clear to me when Im engaging with people who arent coming from that place, who just arent coming from a place of love or who arent being genuine, and so because its generally fortunately for me pretty clear whos coming from where, Im able actually to put my energy into a place that feels worth it, where Im getting something out of the exchange too, versus talking to a brick wall that I know is really immovable. As an actor, as a performer, do you have any preference towards playing characters whose gender identity matches your own? And you will frankly eliminate the likelihood that you have a non-binary character that Im going to go, God, you really need to do that over because that was bad.. Our producer, Matt, is going to kill me if I do a three-hour conversation about metaphysics, but what I love is that Taylor now that Taylor has been on the show for four seasons the representation of Taylor is awakening that kind of consciousness to an untold, an innumerable number of people who get to watch Billions. Asia made their television show debut as the bald girl on the comedy-drama series Younger in 2015. There were versions of the script that had pronouns for the Adjudicator that were he/him, there were versions that had she/her. I was fine with it and excited for it. Youre right, its sort of this radical premise that was probably problematically intended, because this is the whole thing about comedy: Who is the butt of the joke and whats the intention and what were you trying to do? Dillon: I have certainly said that very phrase, that whatever hope Taylor gave to other people once Taylor appeared onscreen, Taylor gave me that hope and sense of self first. It is something that I must cultivate and it is something that I must consciously do or it will go away. I dont know other than how do I know? But now because of Billions people are recognizing me for Orange more. That would mean that those characters are continuing to be written and that they are continuing to be integral to whatever story theyre a part of. So how would you find a trans actor when your entire government is like, you shouldnt exist? Its important to me because it is me. Theres still not enough, so lets keep going. One is unintentional. Search instead in Creative? They are able to just walk into a room with everything that theyve got, and say, like, Can you handle it?. Pats gender was literally the running joke. Nonbinary, gender-nonconforming, and trans people have always been around, just as long as any other type of person. Honestly, I feel like I dont have an answer for that, because I dont think theres anything that I would throw under the bus. White: Yeah, I had. In this week's episode of Hollywood Remixed, The Hollywood Reporter 's podcast about inclusion and representation in entertainment, Billions ' Asia Kate Dillon joins the show to talk about. Their role on Billions is the first gender non-binary character shown on American television. So yes, its going to happen soon. I thought, if youre nonbinary, can you also be female? Your character has had some nude scenes, including a sex scene opposite Mike Birbiglias venture philanthropist character last season. And perhaps in that instance, for whatever reason, that actor didnt have the agency to influence ultimately what the story was. An example of that is when I am misgendered. Its really nice to talk to you. Sun: Pat even got their own movie, didnt they? It gives us a glimpse into why were drawn to people in power who arehahawho they are. Dillon: Totally. Some of it feels a little weird. Sun: Thanks again to Asia Kate Dillon and THR associate editor Abbey White for joining us on Hollywood Remixed today. And so and this is a statistic that Laverne Cox said in an interview a little while ago I think 85 percent of Americans say theyve only encountered a trans, non-binary, gender nonconforming person through the media. And so to me, actor historically is a non-gendered word and thats the word Ive always used, but I needed to pose the question to the Emmy board, what actor and actress meant to them. If it takes 20 years, I have personally failed. Taylor has a lot of storylines, and I love that most of them actually are not centered around their identity, but do you have input? It didnt come out of a social justice place to create a token character, or to be the first show with a non-binary character. Dillon: Yes, I would say when I was first cast as Taylor and I was talking to Brian and David about the character, they told me that Taylor was going to be a major player in the show, that Taylor was going to play a really important role. Are we at a place where we accept and welcome trans writers, non-binary writers? Sun: Lets go ahead and jump in then, since you brought up animation. And I think you can kind of sniff that out. But I also think that sci-fi and fantasy are about places of imagination and exploration, and in the same way that animation is this place where we do not have to exist within the limits of humanness, its an incredible place to explore lots of things, things that we want to see, things that we want to be. What we need are visions of trans, non-binary, gender nonconforming people not only surviving but thriving and being loved and having loved and being fully formed characters and human beings, so that when viewers are watching, they can relate to us as full human beings and hopefully learn to love and care about those characters, which I know translates to love and care for trans, non-binary, gender nonconforming, intersex people in real life. They had more lines. Billions happened to come out after I had just finished filming season 4 of Orange and I just missed the moment. And the teaching moment didnt hit anyone over the head with this is the righteous way to be because it rang true to the characters, and I think that is a credit to the extraordinary writing we have on the show. Since 1957, GQ has inspired men to look sharper and live smarter with its unparalleled coverage of style, culture, and beyond. Everyone has a gender identity, actually. 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And having seen the first two movies, I just said yes, before I even read the script. But Taylor is not drinking Red Bull. Thank you again. And so I think one of the incredible complexities that the show holds about this character of Bobby Axelrod is that, as you said, hes all the things. White: I mean, I wouldnt say it looks like cisgender racial representation at all. So when I encountered the character breakdown for Taylor, and it did say female non-binary, and of course Ive encountered the word female all my life, and I had encountered the word non-binary before, but in that moment I chose to look both of them up and encountered for the first time the clear explanation of non-binary as someone who identifies as neither a man or a woman, neither male or female, and then also female and male are an assigned sex at birth. But at the same time, its weird to wrap around because the world is exactly the opposite, right? What is shown in the story is you dont know that persons gender, and hopefully the lesson is, Dont assume. Dont assume someones gender just because someone is wearing makeup or dressed in historically feminine attire, whatever that means. 454 1. And in terms of Bobbie, as soon as I saw Bobbie on screen, I was just like, This is so much of what I have been asking for in the sense that this is a character that people clearly are not trying to force one way or another. It is aligned with masculinity. Dillon is competing for an Emmy as Supporting Actor. I think they were intending Pat to be the butt of the joke, but I would love to see a 21st century reinterpretation where I feel like you could keep the premise almost identical and youre just adjusting the frame so that the butt of the joke becomes society and the need to put Pat into a binary framework. Its amazing how much, while prepping for this episode, I was like, Wow, its really hard to decolonize your brain from the gender binary. And then people respond. In John Wick: Chapter 3 Parabellum, currently in theaters, the actor plays The Adjudicator basically the head of international assassin HR enhancing the action franchise with a nonviolent, nonbinary, high-glamour authority figure. So I dont have the honest answers. Sun: How intentional I mean, its probably safe to assume that Looney Tunes, Chuck Jones and those creators werent necessarily conscious or fully cognizant of that but these latter-day animators, this current generation you mentioned Adventure Time.
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